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Lowell

Maura: Geez, I really wish you would mention sometning about people going and READING it. I mean, seriously, how can you forget THAT?!? The reading thing, I mean. Geez. :) -- Lowell

dave s

Look, I remember Byrne, losing the Congressional seat in the district the Dems had made especially for her to Tom Davis, and losing her Senate seat after one term. She's unpleasant. She will be like a stinking rotting albatross around the neck of the campaign. She has all the charm and charisma of John Kerry and none of the spousal resources. It's a great shame she was nominated. Any one of the others would have done the campaign a lot more good.

sarah j

Thanks for the link, Maura. That was a lot of fun to read! It is refreshing to see actual facts instead of distortion. "Dave S", your post is, as you certainly intended it to be, "unpleasant". Civility in public discourse is a sign of maturity. You don't need to call names or be insulting with ad hominem posts such as "stinking, rotting". If you disagree with a candidate on issues or policy, say so and explain why. If you don't wish to vote Democratic, go vote for Bolling. By the way, losing her seat in a brutal gerrymandering is not quite the same thing as "losing her Senate seat after one term".

dave s

If Kaine is smart, he will try and send Byrne to Alexandria and Arlington and Norfolk and keep her away from Southwest and Central Virginia. Kaine himself basically got carried by Warner last time. The notion on the part of left Democratic activists, who are the big voters in primaries, that nominating people like themselves is the way to win elections in Virginia, continues to - let's say it surprises me. Dems elected a governor last time: it was Warner. Nominating people like him would seem to be the way to try and do it again.

You suggest I should split, and vote for Bolling? He's pretty awful. I hope he is as far right of what Virginia voters would prefer as Byrne is to the left. Maybe I am wrong, which worries me. I am in the NoVa echo chamber, so Bolling looks pretty far out to me. Would I want him to be LG, in a Kaine administration? It would certainly be a message to the party not to try and run Byrne for anything else. When the Reeps offered Gorsuch a job after she had crashed and burned at EPA she famously called it 'a nothingburger' - LG is a nothingburger. But people run for it in the idea that it sets them up for better things.

dave s

and furthermore, if you are pushing 'must-reads', take a look at Browder's paper and think whether Byrne's nomination is part of the solution, or part of the problem:

http://www.southnow.org/pubs/reports/browder.pdf

mosquito

So Dave S, why don't you move to Galax, and make it easier for us here in NoVa to secede from the hillbillies? Do you think we actually like being yoked to the ignorant millstone that is the rest of the state?

Winning elections with a "conservative Democrat" is almost like not winning them at all. It's like exchanging an abusive parent for an alcoholic one; you may not be getting hit anymore, but you didn't really improve things much either.

dave s

Mosquito, this is really astonishing. " the ignorant millstone that is the rest of the state "
This is one of the purer expressions of the 'no loaf is better than half a loaf' philosophy that I have seen. And it is a philosophy which will give us Republican triumph as far as the eye can see. With it, we will have a continuation of the meanness of the anti-gay agenda, the blind anti-tax which leaves essential services unfunded. There is an enormous difference between centrist Dems and rightist Reeps, centrist Dems can win that contest, and that's the choice Virginia is not being given.
If you want to represent people in a democracy, it is worth paying at least a little bit of attention to what they actually want, and not to go around calling them 'hillbillies' and 'ignorant millstones'
Can you really imagine that, in five years, 'Governor Petersen' wouldn't sound a lot nicer than 'Governor Bolling'? At least, it would sound a lot nicer to me.

Ben

Dave S sounds more like Dave M to me....

mosquito

Study the political record of Douglas Wilder and tell me how good that was for our side. I stand by what I've said.

When you throw away your principles to win elections, what have you really won? Of course we can win elections in Virginia by going to the right! That does nothing for our views or for the people whose side we're supposed to be on.

And when people have the choice between a real Republican and someone who comes up with his tail between his legs acting like one...

dave s

And you can throw away an election by going left of what the voters will accept. Mosquito, people who share your views vote in the Dem primary. And nominate people who will lose in the general. There's not a lot I can do about this - I vote, but my candidates generally don't get nominated. Your science fiction notion that somehow the rest of Virginia can be cut away and let some central pure core of NoVa elect people to your liking is really pie in the sky.

Kaine, last I looked, was 6-9 points behind in the polls. I think somebody like Chap Peterson could have helped him close the gap. We'll see. Maybe I'll be proved wrong.

Paul

Welp. I agree with Dave S almost 100%. Virginia is a red state. Absent some sort of terrific charisma or charm, a liberal can't win statewide.

dave s

Thanks, Paul.

Warner is a little on the liberal side of the center. And he won, by a whisker, against a charmless low-talent Reep. We have another charmless Reep running, but against Tim Kaine, who is further left than Mark Warner. Can he win? He'll get my vote, but he would do a lot better with the Blue Dogs of the South West if he had a running mate who could reassure them.

By the way, Ben, who is Dave M? Do I have a soul mate out there?

Paul

Ha ha ha. Dave M is Dave Marsden, Ben Tribbett's mortal enemy!

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